Toyota Reports Findings On U.S. Floor Mat Recall

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Floor Mats? 11/3/2009 11:43:00 AM Unbelievable that we can hold a company liable for our own stupid actions. What happened to personal responsiblity. Maybe they should have a recall because we use the wrong windshiled wiper fliud and it obstructed my view in the rain. I feel for the family that lost their lives. But if they could make a call to 911, why could they turn off the engine? Where is a our sense of personal responsiblity?
Is it the floor mats??? 11/3/2009 12:07:00 PM My friend sitting 8 feet away from me at this instant, had this happen in a 2009 Camry. He shut off they key and tried numerous times to restart it while sitting by the edge of the road. The only way he could get it to quit revving full throttle is to remove the fuse from the cruise control and then replace the fuse. Doesn't sound like a floor mat to me. Regarding the Lexus accident - they don't have keys - just a start button, and if you borrowed a car as in that case you may not know that you have to hold the start button in for 3 seconds to shut it off. I am surprised he just didn't kick it into neutral and let the engine blow. I don't think the final word has been spoken on this defect. A floor mat is much cheaper to replace than the computer controlling the engine. Go for the cheap solution first until that doesn't work.
Operator Failure 11/3/2009 12:15:00 PM Here's another example of people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions...presumably because it never occured to them that they were wrong! I see a couple of fixes for this, maybe one of which makes sense, but all might work. 1) Install a hook for the mat like American makers do. Install an interlock on the driver's side hook so the car can't start without it. 2)Carefully instruct prospective buyers on how to turn the ignition off without having to do anything special. 3)Don't sell to anyone too stupid to understand the above. These suggestions are only partially tongue-in-cheek. And another possibility, put the car in NEUTRAL, then use the brakes. Chances are the engine will be RPM limited by the ECM. If not, I would sure rather blow up the car than kill myself and my passengers! We can replace the engine!!
BRAKES 11/3/2009 12:17:00 PM This is another example of how the AP, and other mainstream news organizations, either can't discover, or can't bear to report, the gong-obvious truth. In every motor vehicle that has ever been sold, bar none, the brakes are stronger than the engine. All drivers have to do is brake to a stop, then figure out how to turn off the engine.
runaway Toyota 11/3/2009 12:50:00 PM Take it out of gear, use the brakes- this ain't rocket science. This is yet another example of how badly we need tort reform in this country. The fact that the news media chose to print this dreck shows why the papers are going bankrupt the average person (even with the poor public schooling)can see the stupidity and choose not to buy the printed garbage. The media would rather print garbage that suits the whim of those who capitalize on the stupidity of others (trial lawyers). Heaven Forbid a cup of hot coffee might have been involved.
Japs have a history of bribery and corruption. 11/3/2009 1:09:00 PM So why does this whole mess sound like a cover up? As far as the Brakes suggestion, that only applies when you are at rest, apply the brakes then apply the throttle. Try applying the brakes at 60mph and wide open throttle!
BRAKES 11/3/2009 1:17:00 PM You have never had a gas pedal stuck. A mustang with nkly a six cyclinder engine stuck as I was shifting into third gear. With the hand pulled emergency brake full on and both feet on the brake pedal I slowed the car to 25, then down shifted to 2nd, and finally after an hour ( 20 seconds or so I shut off the key. The return spring on the linkage had come off and after placing it back on the hole the car ran fine, I crimped it on there good to keep it from becoming a problem again.
Toyota vehicle acceleration 11/3/2009 1:21:00 PM Floor matts do not in any way effect the accelerator pedal function. The fact that Toyota has been cleared so quickly means money is excahanging hands.
Toyota Floor mats 11/3/2009 1:30:00 PM I have a 1999 Corolla. Last year I have had the gas pedal stick (after kicking into passing gear) 1/2 dozen times. I have reported to Toyota who responded and said that my car wasn't included in the recall. When I heard that the floor mat could be the problem and the next time my gas stuck in wide open, I actually heard the pedal snap back to the normal position. The floor mat is installed properly, but shifts on the gas pedal side to cause this condition. Toyota hasn't reponded to further emails.
USE THE BRAKES ! 11/3/2009 1:42:00 PM As the good poster says,"USE THE BRAKES!" They are stronger than the pull of the engine all the time. Good advise for sure. This problem reminds me of the government politicians when there is a lack of funds, they just raise the taxes. Use the brakes on these bastards! They must be stopped at all costs. Nancy Palousy's health care is going to bankrupt us all.
Do not blame the dead 11/3/2009 2:32:00 PM To quote the LA Times, Sunday October 18, Business section (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-recall18-2009oct18,0,739395.story): "The 2009 Lexus ES350 shot through suburban San Diego like a runaway missile, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush hour freeway traffic as flames flashed from under the car. "At the wheel, veteran California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor desperately tried to control the 272-horsepower engine that was roaring at full throttle as his wife, teenage daughter and brother-in-law were gripped by fear. "'We're in trouble...There's no brakes,' Saylor's brother-in-law Chris Lastrella told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. Moments later...." Power assisted brakes rely on engine vacuum. At full throttle there is none, so after the first couple of applications of the breaks some estimated 225 pounds of force may be required for breaking. To turn off the ignition when the car is running requires holding the stop button for three seconds while being warned that it should not be pressed during operation. At 176 feet per second in rush hour traffic, it may be difficult to simple 'shift into neutral.' There is a MAJOR safety issue in this automation! Any system's engineer will note that simultaneous conflicting signals need to be recognized as signaling an extreme situation. Maybe the engine should shut down when the brakes are applied under full throttle. Remember the Pinto runabout -- a $5 shield was all that was needed to protect the gas tank from rupturing in a rear-end collision. The issue is safety engineering -- not litigation.
Toyota Floor Mats 11/3/2009 3:19:00 PM The floor mat on the 2008 Tundra doesn't come even close to the gas pedal. There is no way a "properly" installed mat could interfere with the gas pedal unless put in upside down. Got to be pretty stupid to do that!
Floormat Hooks 11/3/2009 3:58:00 PM We have a 2009 Camry LE and it has a pair of hooks that hold the mat in place. Unless people don't use the hooks, I don't see how that would be the problem. If it does turn out to be a computer control problem, I don't think I would have a problem kicking it in neutral and seeing if it would blow up. I too think the rev limiter would keep it from blowing up, though. You could just turn it off. The brakes will work...once and the steering is really stiff, but it beats killing yourself.
Floormats 11/3/2009 4:43:00 PM I don't hear of or read about this problem with other manufacturers' cars. Very few cars do not use floor mats and good engineers consider and address "reasonable miss-uses" of the products they are designing. I think this clearly falls in the reasonable miss-use category. It would appear that Toyota has chosen to blame the operators of it vehicle over addressing the actual problem. Shame on them. I'll keep proudly driving my Fords and keep my fellow countrymen employed.
NHTSA Report 11/3/2009 5:17:00 PM The interesting thing is the floormat was bonded to the BOTTOM of the accelerator pedal, so was it the pedal or the mat??? Also, PAY ATTENTION, this was a loaner car because his car was in the shop. He was unfamiliar with the shift pattern which was not a normal linear shifter. From Injuryboard.com's summary of the NHTSA report: Officially, there is no conclusion as to what caused the August 28th crash of the Lexus ES 350 that killed off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, their daughter and brother-in-law. All four died when the 2009 Lexus in which they were riding, a loan car from the dealer, plummeted over an embankment in suburban San Diego at more than 100 mph before it burst into flames. The family was able to contact a 9-1-1- operator to say they couldn’t stop the ES 350. The brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella said the Lexus had no brakes. * The NHTSA report finds that the brakes in that accident were heavily damaged, seeming to confirm the report from Lastrella. * The report also revealed that the gas pedal’s lower edge was "bonded" to the rubber floor mat that also reveals floor mat damage in the area surrounding the accelerator. * In addition, the brakes showed that full force had been applied, the rotors were discolored and heated and had substantial deposits of brake pad material, consistent with endured braking, according to the NHTSA report. * The recent report says, "Beyond the main pivot, the lever is not hinged and has no means for relieving forces caused by interferences," quoted the LA Times, citing investigators. Toyota is considering adjusting the pedals or their design as part of the current recall. * And the government report found the start-stop button that takes three seconds to turn off the engine in an emergency, was one of the “significant factors” that led to the crash. There are no instructions that appear on the dashboard, and no way to kill power in an emergency.
The Lexus doesn't have a key 11/5/2009 3:00:00 AM You have to press the button for 3 seconds to turn off the car. No one in the family read the car manual I guess. And I'm guessing it doesn't have a "NEUTRAL" either. At least not an obvious neutral. These new age cars aren't like our cars. :)
Toyota Sudden Acceleration Problem 11/8/2009 9:19:00 PM First and foremost, it’s tragically obvious there has not been nearly enough thought to all the necessary fail-safe and safety override modes designed into these “drive-by-wire” automotive systems. The Germans at least had the good sense to make their engines go to idle mode if their systems were presented with the conflicting inputs of throttle and brakes applied at the same time ("smart pedal"). (The Toyota system does not do this. Shame on Toyota — as well as the NHTSA who apparently “approved” of this!) As far as “keyless” ignition system designs go, an across-the-board “standard” is needed immediately. The dashboard “switch” should probably have at least three positions: “Off” (as in -- turn the engine ignition AND electric fuel pump systems both off -- right now); “Idle” (to bring engine power down - but not fully off - to allow for the power steering and brakes to continue to function); and “On or Run.” To have to “hold” the start-button in for ” three seconds” during an emergency situation is beyond any safety design rules I believe could or would ever be allowed for production and placed into widespread use by the driving public…… GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER — NHTSA — NOW !!!!!

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